Rational Discussion of Controversial Topics


Fwiffo 24 June 2015 08:48 AM

When everybody was working in a farm involved in the production of their own food we didn't have unemployment.

If in Dwarf Fortress I have idlers it means I can start new megaproject. Idlers means excess working power. Unemployment is a resource and not a problem. When we free people from tedious manual labour they are free to pursue more abstract and desirable needs. But then we have to be okay with people using their time like that. The problem we are facing is that we are running out of reasons to hand over money to people.

Sitting on the couch all day understandably shouldn't net anyone much but it isn't much better to come up with busy work just for the jobs doer to get paid for it. It would be nice if the job actually accomplished something. If a person does a job with next to nothing in wages that is kind of like society being pretty ambivalent wheter that job gets done or not. So instead of setting people to do stuff that society is ambivalent about make people do stuff that society wants. However if the society survives if that job is not done and society doesn't want people to be bullied couldn't just letting that person be idle be an okay way of accomplishing that?

In a wealthy society it only needs needs very few people to work. A society that is too wealthy to involve everybody in basic survival will need some way how to make ammends or make the working and non-working population coexist. One way of solving is that the amount of work done is limited so that everybody can have a share. You could offcourse come up with new job descripton for example the non-wokring starting working on what the "primarily employed" dream about, such as having nice roads and all kinds of luxuries like that.

However at some point the working peoples dreams are prertty well fullfillen. That is there isn't anything the non-working can do to make ... read more


ChristianKl 25 June 2015 06:31 AM

In Dwarf Fortress the idlers are essentially doing whatever you command them to do.
The same is not true in free Western state. Centrally planned economies aren't as efficient as market based economies.

Treating centrally planned and market based economies as if they would be the same is wrong.


Fwiffo 28 July 2015 05:30 AM

Well micro control is not allowed and when the dwarwen money gets around there can be issues of poor dwarws not affording any great dwellings.

It can still be seen as an analogous problem. The private person wants to work for some material/immaterial goods but in general their imagination as a consumer is more modest than their diligence at working. Thus everybody wants to work but nobody wants to buy the work products. When peoples genuine needs are satisfied, in order to keep the economic machine working artificial needs are created throught advertising and such. It is kinda sad that consumers need enterpreneours to offer new products. If our needs for example jetpacks would be more economically relevant we would immidietly know what to do with excess economical efficiency. but we tend to want products that are already produced rather than could be produced.