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Toggle 2 May 2015 10:22 AM
67%

Do you disagree with the idea that an informed voting population benefits democracy? Or do you simply believe that an education system cannot inform voters without manipulating their ideologies in a consistent way? Or alternately, do you think that such an educational system could exist in principle, but that we have historically failed to achieve it?

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melian 2 May 2015 10:46 AM
71%

Or do you simply believe that an education system cannot inform voters without manipulating their ideologies in a consistent way?

Exactly.

do you think that such an educational system could exist in principle

I think that any authority in charge of "educating" people about political issues would abuse its power to promote its own agenda. Do you think otherwise?


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Toggle 3 May 2015 08:15 AM
65%

Do you think otherwise?


Yes, although I recognize the danger. Typically, we solve these problems by some combination of separation of powers, decentralization, and the manipulation of incentive systems. The advantage we have in designing out institutions is that they are not homogenous entities or 'people' with self-consistent goals.

If the individuals sculpting educational policies do not personally stand to benefit from pushing a personal ideology (or answer to people that are), if they do stand to benefit from some reasonable measure of 'objective' educational goals and well-informed students, then we have a decent shot.

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melian 3 May 2015 12:05 PM
70%

Typically, we solve these problems by some combination of separation of powers, decentralization,

Separation of powers and decentralization certainly help, as they prevent central authority from imposing a single ideology. But I donít think it completely solves the problem. Children in Kansas and California might be indoctrinated in different ways, but they are still indoctrinated.


If the individuals sculpting educational policies do not personally stand to benefit from pushing a personal ideology (or answer to people that are)

But they always do. All people (except me, of course) have their own biases and we enjoy pushing them on other people (evolution made us this way). While teachers would sincerely believe that they are working for the common good and just "informing" students, in reality, they would be promoting their own agenda.

'objective' educational goals

How would you define 'objective' educational goals?



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Fwiffo 16 May 2015 05:40 PM
55%

There is a problem that it's way easier to push arbitrary ideological content true media etc if the population is uneducated. If the population is introduced to ideologies in the context of education they atleast expect some set of standards rather than voting the guy that has a pretty face.

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VoiceOfRa 18 May 2015 10:15 PM
65%

In particular they vote for the guy who represents the most extreme version of the ideology they were taught.


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Fwiffo 19 May 2015 01:01 AM
55%

Wouldn't a education baed introdeuction to ideologies feature multiple ideologies? WHich ones do the students then vote for?

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melian 19 May 2015 10:03 AM
70%

Would you trust a teacher who personally happens to be a right-winger to give students an objective and balanced introduction into socialism?

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Fwiffo 19 May 2015 02:03 PM
56%

Would it be better if no introduction to socialism was given?

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melian 19 May 2015 03:03 PM
70%

I think so. Then the students will at least not become prejudiced and when they grow up they can form their own opinions.

It might be better to invite the representatives of opposing political parties to argue their own cases before the students. But Iím not sure whether this would have any lasting effect on the students.


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Fwiffo 19 May 2015 03:12 PM
56%

We don't truts people to come up again with all the math details when they happen to need math. It is much more efficent to be informed and use parts of already made progress when constrcuting your own knowledge.

I would be more concerned that those "widly formed opinions" woudn't be of that good use in political life. That is I would rather go to a adversial process with people that are informed rather than be in a cooperative process with unprepared people.

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melian 21 May 2015 01:04 PM
67%

I would rather go to a adversial process with people that are informed rather than be in a cooperative process with unprepared people.

Are you sure?

Suppose you have a group of people stranded on an uninhabited island. In case A, they were homeschooled in the US and had no political education apart from what they overheard on the news and from their parents. In case B, they are from North Korea where they spent many hours learning about the differences between socialism and capitalism.

Which group is more likely to build a society where you would want to live?


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Fwiffo 21 May 2015 03:55 PM
55%

North Koreans are not a good candidate for the prepared people. They don't get food so I am not confident that they get the education comparable to US citizen (althought the US level of education is arguably somewhat low). And even if time was spent that doesn't mean education was given (to the same proportion).

That is like asking whether you want partially educated people vs non-educated people.

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VoiceOfRa 21 May 2015 07:35 PM
63%

Assume they're children of the North Korean elite.


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